Andy Woods on the Pre-Wrath Rapture: the following critique of prewrath was presented at the 2023 Pretrib Conference. You can watch the video at This Link (and below) and read the accompanying notes etc HERE.
Some Observations
Dr. Woods has spent time to research and understand the prewrath rapture position. This is evident by the critiques appearing on his YouTube Channel. Given the time constraint, and the many issues with prewrath, the latest presentation was still powerful. I particularly liked the reference about God’s use of Israel and the church, of their coexistence, yet the difference in usability.
My sole criticism is that he might have addressed the 5th seal. Prewrath rapturists are under the impression that God’s wrath cannot be present before the 6th seal because the 5th seal then allegedly is God’s wrath against believers. They assert that this is a problem for pretribulationism.
Some prewrathers claim pretribbers stridently avoid discussion of this “problem” because they have no answer. In fact, Renal Showers addressed it in his two books, Maranatha: Our Lord, Come! and The pre-wrath rapture: An Examination and Critique. Furthermore, I discussed it HERE and HERE
Are pretribbers scared?
Why do these presentations; are pretribbers scared of losing ground? Why does anyone do them about amil, postmil, posttrib, preterism etc? Do Michael Vlach and Matt Waymeyer write books about eschatology because they’re scared? No, it’s what people do.
As I’ve noted before, prewrath rapturists are the squeaky wheel demanding oiling. PW craves attention. But it’s a lose, lose situation. If you ignore them, they’ll determine you don’t have answers; if you respond, then it’s because you’re afraid of losing ground.
The Q & A session
Van Kampen and Rosenthal came up during the question period. Yes, Van Kampen invented the PW system, and converted Marvin Rosenthal, and used his considerable wealth to get the books out. I was passed an email response by Renald Showers (just before he went to be with the Lord) to a friend of mine. In that exchange, he confirmed much of what Tommy Ice stated in the Q & A, and more.
A prewrath attendant pointed out that “to be fair” PW had answers to Woods’ presentation. Well, I’ve seen attempts. So far none of them compel me to change my mind.
In fact circa 2010, Eric Douma and Bob DeWaay conducted a series of presentations challenging Alan Kurschner and Ryan Habbena. One of them began responding, but abruptly stopped. No one bothered to fully address Dr Wood’s earlier criticisms of PW on his channel – aside from some griping from a UK blogger.
It goes both ways, though: PW produced a heavily promoted document alleging Seven Pretrib problems. Pretribbers have responses as well, but prewrathers don’t always like them. See also A Pretribber’s Desperation.
The debate thing
The issue of debates was raised. Personally, I find them tedious. I prefer articles which thrash out the issues. One reason PW proponents cry out for them is because they obsess about pushing the view. My advice to any pretribber considering debate is to become immersed into the problems of the view. Hold your opponent’s feet to the fire. Don’t just defend, and don’t settle on a single issue such as the meaning of apostasia.
Finally, in my opinion, rapture timing isn’t essential to Christianity. The most important thing is to get the gospel message out to the lost.
Maranatha
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